Q. I read your posts last week seeking to prove the existence of God from the meaning we find in life and the universe. But, even if God exists, I don't see why he would care about us, especially about whether we "sin". Why would God, who created a vast universe full of galaxies and stars, care whether I lied or masturbated, or stole something?!? Ridiculous! If he doesn't care about us, wouldn't that mean our lives still have no meaning?
A.
You're making a basic metaphysical misstep, confusing quantity with
quality. Just because something is more numerous or larger doesn't mean
it is more valuable. Would you rather have all the sand in the Sahara
Desert or a single priceless diamond? Just because the universe is big
doesn't mean some (comparatively) small part of the whole isn't of the most value to
God. It's not enough to just point to the size of the universe and say, "well God must not care a fig about us, we're just floating around on some small, insignificant speck in this vast universe." It's not like God can lose track of us because space is so expansive.
Let's go back to the Sahara Desert analogy. Even that priceless diamond would be cast aside as a piece of junk if you had to choose between carrying it out or carrying your infant child out to safety. Why? The baby is just a "small speck" in the vastness of the desert. We could increase the size of the Sahara to cover the entire Earth, or indeed the entire universe and it wouldn't make the sand (or even the diamond) worth anything compared to the life of a loved one. To make the analogy sharper, we should change the naturally forming desert into a vast sandbox which we've created for the child to play in. No matter how big the sandbox gets, because we made it for the kid to enjoy, it can never, in principal, be worth more than the child for whom it exists. In much the same way, God loves His children, you and me, more than all the stars, comets, and planets that fill our universe (our sandbox). And just like a good parent who hates what is bad for his child, so too God hates what is bad (indeed eternally lethal) to His children - sin.
Assuming there is a "god" you are assigning a very human point of view on a being that is supposedly all powerful. Being all powerful means, in my opinion, that why would one even consider a being of less significance. Do you sit and consider how an ant feels as it chugs along doing work? How about fish that swim and look for food?
ReplyDeleteAlso your notion that parents "hate" when a child does bad is assuming a parent judges a child's actions as being hateful. They may be impolite to do or some such but hate is a very strong word. If I had a child I would not hate an action that child took if it didn't know any better or wasn't taught said action was impolite. Mind you I am not saying wrong because what one person thinks as wrong others may not. Yes it is good to have a solid moral code but one doesn't need an outdated book dictating actions.
Would it rather be wise like Elisha that when children taunted him to have she bears consume the children over a petty matter. Maybe a stern talking would rather be in order.
Thank you.
I'm not sure how you jump from "God is all powerful" to "God doesn't care about the beings He freely created." I might not care about what ants do, but I didn't create ants. A better analogy would be to the relationship we have with our children, who we bring into existence, and I certainly care what they do.
DeleteI didn't say "parents hate when a child does bad," I said a parent "hates what is bad for his child." Parents hate the things that are evil for their children, such as cancer or drug use, because those things are destructive of the one they love. In the same way, God hates what destroys us, sin.
I made the jump because being over a being like you to an ant means you have little regard as to what the ant does. I don't believe in god creating humans. There are no facts to back this claim up.
ReplyDeleteAlso if you look to the bible you can see that god's entire reasoning is such that god needed man to sin. That or god isn't all powerful, seeing, knowing, ect. because of being a dolt and putting the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden. Another, and much more believable , theory is god isn't real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_AHY this a humorous yet a rather good account of what would happen if Adam and Eve obeyed god.
1) It's not that we are "over" an ant that means we have little regard for them. It's that we don't find them important. An adult is "over" a baby, but still has a great deal of regard for what the baby does, especially if the baby is hurting himself. You've failed to show why an all-powerful God can't love the creatures He freely creates.
Delete2) There are many fact that back up the claim that God exists and that He created humans. One such fact is that we find meaning in our lives. I explored the implications of this fact last week on this blog.
3) It doesn't follow that God isn't real or that He isn't all powerful, etc because He put the forbidden fruit in reach of man. It simply shows that respects our free will. God warned man not to eat of it, man did, and death entered the world.
God bless.
You think god find humans important? My point is if a being of unlimited power was real why would it even care about something so insignificant. Also there are no facts that god is real because there is no way to give validity to any of the claims made in a book that is based off oral folklore and non eyewitness accounts. Death was around far long then man ever was. See examples of the dinosaurs and other beings that are older.
Delete1) Again, there is simply no reason to believe a Creator would find His creation insignificant. Did Michelangelo find the Sistine insignificant? Did Shakespeare find Macbeth insignificant? Does a father find his infant son insignificant? There simply is no logical way to mover from "God has unlimited power" to "God finds His creatures insignificant." None.
Delete2) Whether God is real and whether the Bible is reliable are two different issues entirely. Certainly, if the Bible is reliable then God is real. But we cannot jump from "the Bible isn't reliable" to "God doesn't exist". It is conceivable for both the Bible to be unreliable and for God to be real. Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.
3) Neither does death being around for longer than man preclude the existence of God. This is another non sequitur.
Seeing how the creator was more then willing to kill his own creation save some handful of people says to me god doesn't give a fig about humans. If they were true then the stories about the flood shows god was more then willing to kill off pregnant mothers, babies, children because everything was "evil". God couldn't find ten people in Sodom and Gahmorrah yet there probably were women, children, babies, ect.
ReplyDeleteYou have the burden of proof to show god is real. So far there isn't a single piece of evidence that accounts for this, Also death being around before man "brought sin and death into the world" does show god isn't real.
First, see my second point above. Attacking the Bible doesn't disprove God.
DeleteSecond, God only floods the Earth to save mankind from sin. The story of Noah is a story of God's love for the world, He loves it so much He re-creates it to cleanse it from sin. Remember, from a Biblical perspective, sin is worse than death.
Third, I've presented evidence that God. The fact that we find meaning in life, objective meaning, shows that God must exist. That is evidence. You might want to dispute the argument, but pretending it doesn't exists won't get you very far. Of course, that is far from the only evidence that God exists, but that alone is enough to refute your claim.
As far as who has the "burden of proof" well that depends on who is trying to convince who. If I am trying to change your mind and make you think God exists, then I have the burden of proof. If, however, you are trying to change my mind and make me give up my belief in God, then you have the burden of proof.
Showing the bible as false does a lot to disprove god being real. For one the bible is supposed to be divinely inspired yet it is filled with contradictions and morality that is not even close to today's standards. There are parts that were written for little else then how to build things. The gospels themselves can't agree with the life of Jesus.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not the Bible is divinely inspired and whether it is "filled with contradictions" are both entirely separate conversations from whether or not God exists.
DeleteDo you think you'd convince a Hindu, a Muslim, or even a pagan philosopher like Aristotle that God doesn't exist with an argument attacking the Bible?